When I walk into the upstairs bar at Berlin on the Lower East Side during happy hour, it’s noisy and as dimly lit as a cave with a few lanterns lighting the way. But Sage Leopold, the lead singer of Brooklyn dreamgaze band PANIK FLOWER, is all too easy to spot. It’s the week of the New Colossus Festival, a time when bands from the US and a litany of bands overseas in countries ranging from Canada to Denmark and the Netherlands congregate on stages in scattered Manhattan venues to play half-hour sets.
I make my way over to the large table and wood-paneled bench near the back of the bar, where the five members of PANIK FLOWER are gathered before they take the stage at Berlin an hour later. We launch into a discussion about their upcoming project rearview, and the two lead singles “alkaline” and “ocd.” With driving guitar hooks and Leopold’s careening vocals, the two singles lurch between the ache of desire and longing and the addictive nature of digital consumption. Additionally, we discuss the stability and disorder they brought to the “ocd” music video, and how location contributes to their songwriting.
OCD feels very dreamy and also anxious at the same time. How did you approach balancing those contrasting moods while writing it?
Max Baird: Just from an instrumental perspective, that’s been a common experience with everything we’re writing. A lot of these songs get written beforehand, and everyone’s styles are a little bit different. So it’s really cool to have Sage’s angry vocals with some spoken word over a gentle guitar part. It feels like everyone’s personalities clashing a bit and it’s a lot of fun.
Mila Stieglitz-Courtney: In some ways, now that I think about it I feel like there’s some of us that lean more on the anxious side, and others more on the chill side. I feel like we’re trying to explore that sort of balance in a lot of our music with something chaotic and loud, but also pared back and chill.
Sage Leopold: I feel like the overall theme of this EP is playing with juxtaposition, be it instrumental, vocal, or dynamic-wise. It’s something that we’re really been leaning into on this project.
“Obsessive consumption diet” is such a cutting line. Where did that come from?
Leopold: Just from a mental health perspective, I definitely have some OCD tendencies, so I wanted to translate that into this problem that’s very prescient in our generation: the overconsumption of media.
Stieglitz-Courtney: As a fellow girlie with OCD tendencies, there’s a lot of stuff that’s analogous to that, especially when you’re in a band figuring out how to present yourself online all the time.
I really loved how the mix in this song was giving more Sonic Youth and less Slowdive. How do you go about deciding what kind of texture you want the sound of a recording to have?
Stieglitz-Courtney: That’s such a good question, cause there’s so many possibilities when you go in and record something. And I think something we’ve really had to learn as a group is going in with a bit more of a vision and knowing when to stop, because there’s so much that you could do. We worked with really great mixers and producers, and they really helped us hone that vision. Having the sound in our live sets nailed down a bit more definitely helped. And I feel like now we feel empowered to play around with stuff like texture without overdoing it too much.
Leopold: To add on to that, I feel like the stuff that’s more “shoegaze,” James [our producer] and ourselves decided to stay true to that in some songs, and then with “ocd” we decided to pare it back. We recorded the vocals and guitars much differently to create that juxtaposition.
What stood out to me in the music video was the juxtaposition of stability and disorder. How did you and the director go about the visual storytelling?
Leopold: I think that because the song has this really chaotic energy, we talked as a group about staying true to that in the video. So when I brought that to the director and DP I felt we could utilize that a lot in editing, in terms of keeping up with that frenetic energy. And then we have some of the b-roll shots of that mysterious shadowed figure, which is me, obviously. But we decided to create a visualization of an intrusive thought that keeps coming back but also remains in the background.
Jordan Buzzell: I think that’s manifested really well in the lighting of the video, there’s a really conscious sort of direction when it comes to the angles as well as the stability. So that chorus is meant to be absolutely destabilizing, panicky, anxious. So it’s all about the dichotomy you find in the addiction to social media and sort of compulsiveness that you find online.
In our last conversation you described how the chaos and disorder of living in New York is essential to your music. How has your perspective on living here evolved over the years?
Leopold: It’s interesting, because I’m a born and raised New Yorker. So my relationship with the city ebbs and flows in so many ways. For “ocd,” I think I wrote most of the song while walking down the street. Marco had sent me an instrumental demo that really clicked with me while I was walking. I remember the words immediately popping into my head, even when not in the most conventional writing environment. But it flowed so naturally. I have a really complicated relationship with the city, so it’s a source of inspiration that’s both positive and negative, because there’s so much music around us and a lot of competition, whether it’s perceived or real. But I feel like living here is definitely a source for these feelings of pressure.
Stieglitz-Courtney: And I feel like this is actually more explicitly coming up in a new song that we’re in the process of writing; these qualms we have about living here, growing up here, and creating your own life. And New York is amazing, but there’s also many aspects of living here that are really tough. In both ways, it definitely creates a lot of great inspiration for writing.
With rearview arriving in April, what is the message or mood you hope for the project to convey?
Stieglitz-Courtney: A big thing that we’ve talked a lot about as a group is the fact that the last project was more about the external world and our relationships to other people, but this one is a lot more inward looking, and I hope that translates in terms of what the project is about will translate well. Love and relationships are obviously very universal, but struggles with oneself are also very universal.
Baird: And also these struggles with identity fit so well with the really aggressive spoken-word juxtaposed with the more melodic hooky stuff. Jordan’s guitar textures are so weird and interesting as well, and I hope that speaks to the type of message we want to convey about challenges with the self.
How have your influences evolved over the years?
Buzzell: Well, personally I’ve gone down the rabbit hole on shoegaze. And we currently label ourselves as “dreamgaze,” with dreampop inspirations from Beach House and Cocteau Twins, and then on the shoegaze side, you get a lot of My Bloody Valentine and Slowdive. But recently, I’ve been really inspired by the band Wisp. And I think they really cut away from the heaviness to really break into the serene dreaminess. We’re also inspired by groups like Dry Cleaning, who allow for a message to really flow through and also leave space for really top-level instrumentation. So we lurch between the spoken word and melodic, which is such a cathartic release. Specifically on “Rearview,” the song you’ll hear soon, that is embodied perfectly.
Stieglitz-Courtney: And one big thing that I will say is different from the last project is having Marco join us, who’s a freaking machine with writing such incredible stuff, so we’re really excited for this new chapter.
Marco Starger: And like Jordan mentioned with post punk vs. shoegaze, it can be hard to imagine how both can work together at the same time. But we’ve also added a lot of driving rhythm under our songs, while keeping the fuzzy guitars, and merging the two has really defined our current sound.
What is one unique thing that each member adds to the band, in terms of skill and sound?
Baird: Well, Mila’s got such a good ear for hooks. While Jordan’s tones are super textured and crazy, Mila’s got these simple single lines that are so fucking catchy with perfect harmonies. Marco is incredible, not only is he popping songs out left and right, but as a bassist I can always get a little weirder and more dynamic while he keeps us grounded. And Sage provides so much emotion and power as a vocalist.
Stieglitz-Courtney: Marco brings so much life to the group, and that’s been so amazing and a big source of inspiration and motivation songwriting wise. Max is like the driving force of many songs as well, as many of our songs often start on bass. Jordan is just the craziest guitar player I’ve ever met, and self-taught which is crazy. And Sage just really catches the vibes in the lyrics. Songwriting is tricky, but anytime someone brings something to the table she immediately clocks the vibe of the song and brings something really awesome and relatable to it.
Leopold: I feel like each of us balance each other out in a really nice way that’s also really open and we really do listen to each other. If we have any criticisms of each other, it’s always very gentle and constructive, even though we do roast each other often. I think all of you have challenged me with this project and pushed the boundaries of comfort, which I really appreciate.
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