Since moving to New York, I’ve been introduced to a ton of local artists, both organically and at the hands of friends who’ve already been living here. In this series of interviews, Grrrls in the Five Boroughs, I sit down with inspiring womxn and queer femme musicians based in New York City to discuss their personal connections to music, their communities, and their favorite local hotspots scattered across their neighborhoods in New York.
When I moved back to New York City in 2022 after a 2-year long covid-induced hiatus in Massachusetts, one of the first things I looked into was how I could immerse myself in the local music community. I was fresh out of college, unemployed, and searching for a greater purpose. Live music became my lifeline and ended up forming 90% of my strongest friendships.
Shortly after attending multiple shows and acquiring local music recommendations from new friends, I started spinning mixes from local college radio stations and independent curators like WFUV and Look at My Records!. The local talent in New York – a gaggle of bands across all neighborhoods and genres who were making some of the best music I’d ever heard in my life, purely for the love of the art – was genuinely inspiring to me.
Many of these songs ended up soundtracking a few of my most cherished memories in the past few years, but I will never forget the first time I heard a song called “Across the Room,” by a Ridgewood-based indie rock band called Ok Cowgirl. I was walking a friend’s dog when it came on my playlist shuffle. The opening instrument that kicks off the entire song is lead singer Leah Lavigne’s voice – a haunting, ghostly croon nonchalantly recounting a memory of awkwardly running into an ex and following them around out of curiosity, before changing octaves in the pre-chorus over a simple crunchy bass line and stabbing guitar licks. The song culminates in a chorus where everything goes quiet except for restrained percussion, understated whirring guitar feedback, and Lavigne’s pain-laced caterwauling – nothing nonchalant about it this time – eventually leading to a triumphant turnaround where every instrument crashes back into the mix and she belts out, “And now I only, now I only / Sit and think and sit and think and sit and think of you / From across the room.”
I was stopped dead in my tracks on that East Village sidewalk, no recollection of where I was going and all awareness of my surroundings lost. My head was empty, except for the singular thought: This is one of the best pop songs I’ve ever heard. It became one of the very few songs I’d heard in the past couple of years about all-encompassing heartache that really made me believe it – imbuing so much fury, conflict, and passion into the recording.
Since then, not a day has gone by when Ok Cowgirl hasn’t soundtracked my life, so it was only a matter of time before I eventually pulled the trigger and asked Lavigne to participate in this interview series. We met up a couple of weeks ago at The Turks Inn before Ok Cowgirl took the stage at The Sultan Room, to discuss everything from her musical high school talent show origins to SXSW, opening for Hurray for the Riff Raff, and learning to stay grounded and prioritize vulnerability as an artist.
What brought you to New York?
I originally moved to New York for undergrad. I wanted to be here because as a musician, I believed there would be more opportunities here. I wanted the chance to meet exciting people and other creatives that would make life more interesting. I grew up in a suburb of Detroit, Michigan, so the idea of being in a big city was really enthralling to me.
When you moved here for undergrad, were you studying music?
I didn’t study music in college. I actually designed my own major in the humanities. However, I was very interested in studying art through a sociological lens, specifically power dynamics in the music and art worlds and how classism and racism get perpetuated in these spaces.
I was definitely still making music, though. I was a solo artist at the time playing more keyboard-based singer-songwriter stuff. I loved Regina Spektor, Alicia Keys, and Ben Folds. Those were some of my biggest influences when I started off doing mostly piano-based pop.
As a songwriter who taps into the depths of human emotions and vulnerability really well, do you believe that a lot of people turn to songwriting because it’s one of the very few socially acceptable ways to do that?
I definitely think I fell in love with songwriting because I was searching for a way to process and express some of my deepest emotions. I would write these songs for myself. The process was cathartic, and singing them made me feel empowered. It helped me feel some semblance of understanding and even control over emotions that otherwise felt extremely confusing and overwhelming. To this day, writing songs feels like a practice of being in communion with myself.
The first time I shared my music with others was at my high school talent show, and my expectations were so low. I wasn’t expecting anybody to care about these songs, but people reacted so positively to them. That’s when I realized I could do this not only as a way to process my emotions, but it could also allow me to connect with other people feeling the same things.
I definitely hear that in many songs of yours like “Her Eyes” or “Across the Room,” where you express certain qualities and personal flaws that might not be the most flattering, but that’s what makes those songs so endearing.
Right. Like admitting to running into your ex and following them for a few blocks out of curiosity. Of course, we don’t always like to admit or talk about our more embarrassing actions or questionable thoughts. But I think shining a light on those things that we might usually be ashamed of can be so powerful. And sharing these things in a song is sort of a safe space. I feel like when listening to music people do sort of reserve judgment and really appreciate honesty, so saying those things is really powerful, because ultimately they’re relatable.
When I was making singer-songwriter piano-based material I was very concerned with writing pretty music. And I started to feel pigeonholed. I felt like I couldn’t express my anger with the grit I wanted to or my joy with true energetic exuberance when making piano-based music. So I decided to take up guitar and started collaborating with some of my closest friends to create something bigger that had a more dynamic range and felt like a more accurate reflection of life, sonically and emotionally.
– Leah Lavigne (Ok Cowgirl)
Have you ever contributed to a creative project outside your own work that you’re really proud of?
Ok Cowgirl definitely feels like the culmination of a lot of other work beforehand. As I said before, I played in a solo project with a few friends accompanying me. My drummer Matt was someone I actually met when I was eighteen and playing shows at cafes. I started realizing how fun it was to open up the creative process to input from others and to share energy when on stage together. Before I started my own band I played in other people’s bands. Actually, Ok Cowgirl’s bass player Ryan has a band called Fair Visions that I used to play in and that’s how I met John, our producer turned guitar/synth player.
After playing in other bands and having a solo project for years, music was starting to feel a bit stale for me. I wasn’t as excited about what I was doing anymore. When I was making singer-songwriter piano-based material I was very concerned with writing pretty music. And I started to feel pigeonholed. I felt like I couldn’t express my anger with the grit I wanted to or my joy with true energetic exuberance when making piano-based music. So I decided to take up guitar and started collaborating with some of my closest friends to create something bigger that had a more dynamic range and felt like a more accurate reflection of life, sonically and emotionally.
I also see that y’all are about to take the SXSW ride again. How do you think the experience will be different this year?
I have a good friend who calls SXSW indie rock summer camp, which is honestly what it feels like! I think the biggest thing for me is to let it stay fun. Of course, it’s a massive networking event, but enjoying the experience is just as important. We’re playing an official show, but we’re also playing a good handful of DIY shows with friends we’ve met over the years, and to be honest, I’m just as excited about those unofficial shows. There’s such an amazing music scene in Austin and it’s an amazing opportunity to meet people from all over the country and the world. I’m just looking forward to playing in front of new audiences and discovering new artists that aren’t yet on my radar.
For sure. And if I could toot your horn a little, we’re seeing a lot of local people in the Brooklyn music scene pop off in ways we never could have imagined. People like Katy Kirby and Gustaf, who are close to reaching indie superstardom. And I totally see Ok Cowgirl on that same trajectory. What lessons have you taken away from seeing people in your circle achieve that level of success?
Okay, I’m gonna be vulnerable with you for a second. I’ve been making music for a while now, and I’ve had a lot of friends reach a level of success that I have not. At first, it was somewhat discouraging. It made me question myself and experience a lot of doubt.
But I’ve worked really hard to stop playing the comparison game. There are so many different factors that lead to success; it takes a lot more than talent and hard work. It’s often about circumstance and luck. What I will say is that there are so many people I look up to who I don’t believe have received the recognition and praise that they deserve. Do I fault them for that? No. So I’m trying not to be so hard on myself and not let superficial things and statistics be the way I measure my own success. At the end of the day, life isn’t fair. All I can do is celebrate my own and other people’s successes and appreciate what an intense labor of love this is for so many.
What I’ve also learned is that all you can really do — and it’s such a cliché but it’s absolutely true — is just be yourself. When I was younger I was trying so hard to observe what was working for other people and take notes, and that got me nowhere. As I’ve gotten older I’ve realized that the only value you really contribute as an artist is by being you. That’s something I always remind myself when the doubts creep up.
What are some of your favorite local haunts in New York?
I love a good coffee shop. Topos Bookstore in Ridgewood is really cute. So many creatives and artists living in Ridgewood gather around there, and that community is something that’s really important to me. There’s a great Italian place in Ridgewood that reminds me of my Italian American roots in Detroit called Joe’s. And I also really love this Venezuelan restaurant in Bushwick called Arepera Guacuco (try the Pabellón criollo and thank me later).
What does the rest of the year have in store for Ok Cowgirl?
We just signed a record deal with this awesome label out of Chicago and Nashville called Easy Does It, and they’re gonna help us put out our first full-length record. I cannot wait to share this record with the world! We’ll also be at SXSW, and we have a show in March that’s being put on by WFUV where we’ll be opening for Hurray for the Riff Raff, who I absolutely love. So I’m stoked for everything we have coming up!
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